13: Let’s Talk Content For Your Business

13: Let’s Talk Content For Your Business
Content is king they say. In this episode, we talk about what exactly is content and how you can use it to effectively grow your business online.
 

Resources for this Episode

Darryl:                    Welcome to My Bloody Website, the show where we talk all things online for small and medium business owners or executives who still refer to "their bloody website." You can find all our previous episodes, show notes, and links to all the resources we mention, on BloodyWebsite.com; that's a little bit smaller than our main domain. Anyway I'm Darryl King, one of the co-hosts ...

Edmund:                And I'm Edmund Pelgen.

Darryl:                    Welcome Edmund.

Edmund:                Hey Darryl, how are ya?

Darryl:                    Very good mate; we're well into February. I'm going to have a little intro here to talk about this; this is an interesting little adjustment to our episodes this week. And for everyone's benefit, what we're going to do over the coming weeks is do a bit of a series around some topics. So we've done some broad areas, we've talked about some technical stuff; we've had some guests on talking about some specifics. But over the journey of this podcast, we want to get into lots of things that you can do and implement to make improvements to your website and to get better results, whatever those results you want might be.

                                    And today's episode is going to be kind of like an umbrella for some more detailed stuff in the weeks to come. And the intro piece that I'll talk about now, I'm going to ask Ed a specific question around it as we talk about the topic, is, you know, what is our website all about? We have a website for our business or organization, and not necessarily all for-profit businesses, sometimes these are charities or whatever. They're running websites, trying to get results. And fundamentally, no one has a website for "shits and giggles," as the expression goes. Right? You have it for a reason. People put a website up because they want to make sales, they want to support their customers; they want to sell more books or promote a podcast. Whatever it is that you do, you have a reason for it.

                                    So first of all, we start with the reason we put it together. And that's, kind of sticks with those two things and builds it. But the website itself is a vehicle or channel to get something done. And the way that you help get that done is with what we call "content." And every web app, website, and in fact everything offline that you do that's in any form of marketing or promotion or [inaudible 00:02:10].

                                    And we will talk content today, and in coming weeks, about how you understand and work with content, what sort of content you need and work with. But first off on that, Ed, before I talk someone's ears off, what the bloody hell am I talking about when I talk about "content"? Why don't we go back and forth a bit here; what's your take on content? What is content? What am I talking about? Tell people.

Edmund:                That's an amazingly detailed and awesome introduction. But when we come to talk about content, everyone thinks that this content marketing or this idea of content is something that's new. But content has been around for ages, right? In any marketing channel that people have used in the past, pre-digital, content is what allowed people to engage with it, right? So sort of, from my perspective, at a very simple level, it's anything that you've got on your website or in your marketing channels that helps attract, educate, build trust, and convince a specific person, a specific prospect or whoever you want to do business with, to do business with you. Right? So it's anything.

                                    And people get caught up in thinking, "Oh, our content is just a blog," or anything like that, but the reality is, as you and I talk about all the time, content is everything. It's what you share on your social-media channels, right? And more.

Darryl:                    Yeah, and I think, you know that's really good Ed; I mean ... Oh my lord!

Edmund:                What was that?

Darryl:                    The machinery's taken over! The bots are coming! Yeah, I don't know if anyone can hear that noise but- [crosstalk 00:03:40]

Edmund:                It was like a scream.

Darryl:                    That idea of, like you're trying to help attract, educate, and convince. And I think that's why this is super important. Because the reality of why we have that website is, if no one goes there, if no one does anything with it. If they're not convinced; if they don't interact. If they don't get the answers they need ... I mean, in a lot of cases it's not about "selling" anything, but it comes back to, it's helping.

                                    So you said help attract, educate, and convince. But I think even, you can pull them apart; sometimes it's just to help people. Because, you know, if I'm a manufacturer of a particular product, I might have a sales website. You know, let's talk large scale. But I have service and maintenance things needed to do. Or maybe it's, you know, printer drivers like for Epson or someone like that, that have them. They could just have a site over here that all it does is answer questions and download drivers, or manuals. Now, you're not buying from that; what their job is, and it's part of the bigger circle of why you buy that product as compared to this one, because their support's better or whatever. But the primary purpose is it makes really good sense to have a really good, helpful vehicle. But there might be no sales on it. And other times it's education, because, you know, there might be pre-sales. And we'll talk about those strategies maybe later.

                                    And then of course there is the doing business. But it comes back to, it's not, you know people might interpret that and say, it's a blog post, or it's a brochure, or ... But it's not, is it? Like, it can be a button; it can be the heading or the tagline. It could be an audio clip, an image. It's not just long-form copy.

Edmund:                No. It's anything on the website. And that's a great example you pulled out earlier on. I had an issue with my pool filter the other day, and I went down to the pool filter unit, looked at the brand, and then did a Google search. Ended up on the manufacturer's website and they had a video that explained how to fix the problem that I was trying to solve.

                                    And it was great; it gave me a lot of trust that they were interested in me as a customer, and that didn't want to just sell me the pool filter. But I watched the video; I went and made a fix. And so if anyone ever asks me about, "Hey what pool filter should I buy?" I'm going to recommend them. So it's an issue of time scale, right? So by doing that little piece of content, they're building a lot of value, right? Good relationship value with a customer like me, who's going to refer them business down the track.

                                    And I find some people get so short-term about this; they say, "Why should I do this video or this blog post or update this page? Where's the payback?" Right? They expect it to directly translate to a sale. And it's important to realize that it's more than just that immediate payoff, right? It comes back in the long term.

Darryl:                    Bear with me; this book here, I mentioned it before, right? This guy, B.J. Fogg. B.J. Fogg has been around a long time. And his main focus now, he has this thing called "three tiny habits," and he does a lot of stuff about changing people using technology. But this book, Persuasive Technology, it's old, Using Computers to Change What We Think and Do. And he raises some really interesting points in it. [inaudible 00:06:59]

                                    But one of the things that was really interesting, when you interact face-to-face, so when you sell to someone or when you're servicing someone across the counter, you're sitting across a desk, you're doing a pitch deck and there's people in the room. If you're good at your craft, and you care about what you do and you understand your audience and all of those things; you pick up signals, you engage with people, and your presentation and your operation changes and moves around: you get an objection, you handle it and provide more information, which leads to a positive signal. Then you get another objection and everyone's mood changes. Now, that's really difficult on an LCD screen, right? You know, on a flat webpage. On a video. It's really hard to do that.

                                    Now, what is it that you get in a real-life environment? Well you're getting trust. You're building up empathy and understanding, likeability. All of these factors come in. So, someone that is engaging with you in sales ... and look, just because you don't make a sale doesn't mean you're not a good person and you didn't connect with them, they didn't believe you. But that's the same thing, when we get down to talking about content. So, what B.J. Fogg talks about a lot is that, you know, his thing is there's no set formula. There's like a scale. And what you're trying to do is, all of the things that you're trying to do with your digital stuff should be to raise the bar that, I'm increasing more trust.

                                    And there's some things which remove trust. So if I have an ad on my site, that's a negative signal. But you know, what if I need ads on my site? So, I might be a newspaper, I need some sort of commercializing. But if I do more things that add trust than remove trust, I'm building up a trust bank that helps me lead you to an end goal that you might want.

                                    And that's really tricky. So what you were saying about content and building trust and why you invest in it, is because it is a harder thing to do electronically, and it's rarely a one-time thing that you buy. There are some things I buy, that, musicians coming to town, there's only one big site that does it; I go there and buy even though I don't like their website. That's very different to the normal sales cycle that someone might have their website [inaudible 00:09:12].

Edmund:                Yeah. I think it's interesting, like, you've been in this web design game for many years, and I bet you remember the first websites that went up, right? And the content was always, just rip it off the brochure, right? Just put that crap on the website. It was literally a-

Darryl:                    That's why we call them "brochureware" websites. They were called brochureware websites, right!

Edmund:                No one gave a shit; they just copied the brochure and threw it up there; there wasn't any thought of, a) helping the customer or b) search engines, or any of that stuff; it was just this new wild west, I need a website to be a real business, right?

                                    And as the web has evolved, I think it's interesting to see how our behavior as customers has changed, and where the websites and the content fits in. Because you think about it now, the big change that's happened in the past is that, traditional marketing was always outbound, interruption-based; you know, you'd listen to the radio, the TV, ads would pop on while we were engaged in watching content, things like that. And the important thing to note is that this whole idea of content and content marketing falls under this banner called, the industry term is "inbound marketing." Where rather than, and this is the important thing, rather than interrupting people, it's about attracting them. It's attraction marketing.

                                    And the whole idea is that people are trained to go online to look for solutions, to find information, to engage with their mates on social media. And so they're going to go on and actively look. And the way we attract them is to create content that is going to enter that conversation, that's going to get found. And that's a key difference. It's rather than, "Oh let's go spend money on this radio ad and then bash punters over the head and tell them to come and buy with us," it's creating stuff of value that people will find, they'll search for.

Darryl:                    So yeah. And I guess being clear here, in what Ed's saying is, it's not to say that the radio ad isn't effective for what it is, but defining the two types. So there's inbound and outbound; there's interruption and attraction.

                                    And you know like, just to try a simple analogy in a bar, so old school bars, you know, before Tinder apps and things like got about to hook up with people, you know, there were people who would go up and go, the cheesy line, and try and hit on a girl or vice-versa, a girl and a guy. Then there's the other side, the other person is sitting there and engaging in creative conversations with people and people are attracted to their charisma and they're coming in and they're having great discussions, and then people find, "I actually really like this person." Versus someone that's sort of brute-force, what I call "bro marketing," which is go out there and punch you in the face, and say "Hey," you know, some cheesy line, "you should buy from me."

                                    But you're building identity, you're building relationships, you're building trust, in subtle steps, using stuff. And it's that, I guess SEO has it, all of these other things have it where, everyone would like a magic bullet. Everyone's saying, "Ta-da!" This is out; everyone's buying. Which very rarely happens. There's very rarely anything happens that way with, you know, if you hunt back through how they got their success. Invariably they were creating stuff. You know, it could be that they created the content before they launched the site, and when they launched the site they had a hundred pieces of awesome content they started issuing, and everyone resonated with it and came in.

                                    But I think it's that whole thing of understanding. If I send out an email newsletter, that's an interruption form. I'm interrupting someone in their thinking process. They were not necessarily thinking about me and my product at the time I sent it. Versus, they're hunting for something and they discover things that I've created, and then they come and investigate it and read it and- [crosstalk 00:13:05]

Edmund:                Yeah. And to some extent that inbound, it's kind of a function of this online world, you know. Because people do go and use search engines to find stuff. So, that's how we leverage it by putting that stuff out, it builds a lot of trust.

                                    But you know, it's important to remember that content marketing and all this content production existed previous to this digital space, right? People have been content marketing for years. I mean everyone knows about the John Deere catalog ...

Darryl:                    You didn't have to bring that up.

Edmund:                Yeah. But I mean the classic one is soap operas; I don't think people realize that soap operas was one of the initial forms of content marketing, because in the early days they were creating these radio soap operas and Colgate-Palmolive actually stepped in and started sponsoring one of the first ones. And through that relationship, they got a massive audience of people who were interested in the show, and through their sponsorship ... The content was the show, and then that appealed and attracted a specific audience. And they built a lot of trust and brand recognition through that mechanism.

Darryl:                    And newspapers, to a greater or lesser degree, is the same story. What we think of a newspaper today, and what we before, a newspaper was a vehicle to deliver ads to people.

Edmund:                Exactly.

Darryl:                    That's what it was. So we produced content that people were interested in so that we had the ability to put ads in front of them. Versus, hey I'm driving down the road and bang, there's a billboard in front of me that's interrupting my visual space. So a newspaper was being used to say well how could I get lots of ads in front of people on a regular daily basis? Well, if we report on this and we do that. Now, it's a bit of a chicken-and-egg thing but again it's examples of great or interesting, valuable content that people get. And nowadays you say well, nowadays it's a different mindset altogether. You know, like the way that it's been going.

                                    All right, so let's go back. We touched on it. And it's not just about creating lots of content for attraction; that's just one part to it. So content online for the people listening to the show, who are potentially looking at a website; it might be their first, their third, their fifth, why is everyone going they made millions of their websites? They're still looking at, how do we make this thing work for me, is to understand that on that website the carousel image your web developer told you, you've got to have three of on the homepage. That is content. The taglines that you've put, the headings, the paragraphs of content. The text on the button. The choice of image. The way that you write the content on your thank-you page. [crosstalk 00:15:43]

Edmund:                Yeah, all your landing pages, it's all content.

Darryl:                    Anything there, is a form of content.

Edmund:                Yeah. And ... am I interrupting?

Darryl:                    No not really. My brain was spinning. So, one of the dangers I think is that, they come along and go, "I've got a website; we think our copy's great because we wrote it." Or they've engaged a copywriter to do it, and the copywriter wrote it to the brief they were given, and they wrote some copy which is fundamentally correct to the page. And a copywriter that knows their online stuff will have written some calls-to-actions and all the rest of it. They invariably get it, right, this whole attraction thing, I've got to get traffic, I've got to do it. And I had a conversation just yesterday with someone who says, "Yeah, yeah we've got this website," and my question is, "Okay, so that's great; how are you going to get people to it? How are you going to get an audience? Are you buying the audience or are you attracting them?" And they go, "Well we've put it up; people will find it." And we know that's not quite the case.

                                    So then they pick up on whatever the latest thing, tactic they hear about, is, "Oh, isn't that why we blog?" Everyone blogs, and then we get found. Or "I'm going to post on social media." And they will play with those two there because, it's not really just about putting out a blog every day or week. It's not that at all.

Edmund:                No. I mean, that's just the mechanism, right? I mean, I blame SEOs a lot here. You know, back around 2012 Google came down and smashed a lot of SE Os' link-building strategies and they immediately jumped onto this, you know, Google made some comment about creating good quality content and you'll get found in search engines, right? So every SEO jumped on that bandwagon as a mechanism for selling more SEO services by just rebranding them as "content marketing": "Hey let's just publish a lot of content; Google will find you and bring you a lot of traffic and you'll make millions." But that was just a load of crap. It ended up with a lot of big agencies selling really generic crappy content.

                                    And think there's no excuse, just because we know search engines work and writing targeted content attracts people, it's still no excuse for publishing crap for crap's sake, right? At the end of the day.

Darryl:                    And let's be honest; we've all, in helping ourselves and people, put out content that you look back later and go, "I'm not sure that serves the purpose we're trying to get to."

Edmund:                Exactly.

Darryl:                    And just to give people a little bit of insight into where this is going to go over the coming weeks, is that the important parts of understanding and making good content come down to some really key things. And some of the topics we're going to talk about coming up is, what I just said there, which is who are you actually targeting, and what is it you're expecting to get out of it? Because I think if you look at that first, and then ideate on how you're going to create content, you have much better success.

                                    So the danger here is, content in itself doesn't help anyone. The world online, the internet, is filled with content. In theory you could say, we don't need anymore content; it's all be written. The reality is, a lot of it is junk, and a lot of it is rubbish. And a lot of it is filler. And none of it is specific necessarily to your business.

Edmund:                Yes. I think that's probably the critical point here, is that you need to be creating a piece of content for a very specific customer. Or your "Jenny" as you call it.

Darryl:                    Jenny.

Edmund:                Your Jenny. You know, who's my Jenny, right? Because at the end of the day, like you said, there are billions of blog posts out there. There's so much generic stuff there. And in the same ways, if I had a brain tumor I would look for a brain surgeon; I wouldn't go to a GP, right? So if I'm a very specific business and I consider myself different from everyone else, I'm going to look for the person who knows my business best. And how do I know that? Well they write about my issues; they write about my problems very specifically. They show me examples, case studies, of how they've solved my problems before.

Darryl:                    But that's from knowledge, right? When you go to knowledge experts around a topic, it's easy to create good content around what they know, and that attracts you.

Edmund:                Yeah. So I think it's important that it starts with an understanding of who your target customer is, and how you can help them. And then that will feed into all the types of content that you can create that will help that customer.

Darryl:                    Okay. So the message there is, you really have to understand, and the next episode, next week, we are going to do a session, and the phrase "Who's your Jenny?" is something that I use a lot in my consulting gigs; it's just a way of defining it, identifying. So we'll talk about that next week and both of us have ways and mechanisms we try to identify the customers, to understand.

                                    So what were the key takeaways though is that content, and all forms of content, matter.

Edmund:                That's right.

Darryl:                    So they matter a lot. And the way to make your digital marketing work better, and I'm talking about, what you post on social media. What you put in your email newsletter. What you do. Just doing it because you should, in my view, it's just wrong; in fact, part of me would say don't do it if you're not prepared to do it right. And "right" doesn't mean perfect; right doesn't mean 100%. Right means with the right intent. With the right basic strategy. That's what I think.

                                    So if you aren't going to commit to doing Facebook posts well, don't do them. And by "well" means when you start with something you learn from them, you get better. Rather than just, "Ah I'm going to copy Billy Ray's way of doing it." Don't do that. "I'm going to get on and post the same thing on three different channels because that's what I heard at some basic chamber of commerce meeting: 'Just post everything as tool; you can post on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, whatever, all that the same time'." But it's missing the whole point of why we create content in the first place.

                                    Which is, we have something we want to share with the world, right? That's the first part; we didn't just wake up one day and go, "I'll write about ... you know, fishing lures." It's like, "I'm into fishing lures; I sell fishing lures," whatever it might be. You might just be into fishing, and you want to write about fishing lures as a part of that. But you have a reason why you want to share something. You have something you want to share.

                                    Then who are you going to share it with? And then, why? What's the end result here? "Oh, I just want people to learn more about great fishing lures." That's a great result, and if a hundred people tell you, "You know what? I didn't know that about fishing lures; you've really helped my fishing improve," that's an ROI. It's not all about making money. Or it got shared 75 times. Or it got shared 3 million times. Or whatever the goal. But that's what I mean about [inaudible 00:22:45].

Edmund:                I think though, the actual point you talk about there about how people can go and create this stuff is a really critical one to know too, because for the first time in many years, the power actually rests with the business owner, right? We have the ability to create this content, and we've got the mechanisms to distribute it to an audience, right? You know, 50 years ago, the only people who were creating content were people with big budgets, you know, TV stations, all that sort of stuff. Now, you've got the ability as a business owner to create high quality, low cost content and push it out to places where your customers are. Whether that's in Google Search by blog post, whether that's on YouTube, it's a really fantastic time for people who are committed to doing what you just said, creating good quality content rather than just spamming it out there. And then pushing it out, syndicating it properly and promoting it.

Darryl:                    It's a little bit similar to when Microsoft Publisher first came out. So prior to Microsoft Publisher coming out, most people that had to do a flyer or a poster got a graphic designer to do it, of some sort. You know, I mean some of them hacked them up in WordPerfect way back in whatever, but people that hand drew. But generally, if you were a business, you did that. But then Microsoft Publisher came out and suddenly every receptionist and executive assistant that worked for a guy could do it, right? So everyone saved money, and we had multiple fonts and we had all these things. And you know, the marketing guy who thought he was really clever at design, who might have been a good copywriter, he suddenly could do the same thing. And so we had, you know, five different colors, and you ask any graphic designer about [inaudible 00:24:18].

                                    Yeah, yeah, just because you have the tool doesn't mean you can do it well. So now, you can learn the strategies to use a tool like that, or Photoshop, or InDesign, and things, and do it yourself. It's the same with what we do. But everything we do, there's nothing that you or I do in our professional capacities that any one of our audience couldn't do for themselves, if they're prepared to learn the techniques to do it. We have no secret sauce, apart from experience and knowledge. Building websites, hosting, all those things, marketing strategies, you know, online marketing strategies, SEO, you know, all of the stuff ... All of it is learnable. All of the information is available. But it's that same thing, if you're going to do it, just because you can blog, just because you can post on YouTube, just because you can post in places, doesn't mean you're doing right. And you have an obligation to your business as the shareholder of your business and the executive in your business, you owe yourself to at least start doing it better and more effectively.

Edmund:                Yeah. You know what I think would be really helpful, is give some examples. Because a lot of people, a lot of business owners will be like, "Ah, you know, I'm already spending money here and here; I don't want to invest it in content marketing" and they'll take that really campaign-focused approach, like tactical. Like, "I'll spend a little money on this blog post; where's the ROI? Didn't come? I'm going to spent my money elsewhere," right?

                                    But you actually have to embed it in the DNA of the business as part of the ongoing journey. And if I can I'll give two examples of businesses that have used content marketing as a key part of their success. So, everyone knows the story of Marcus Sheridan, who's now a digital marketer for a business called The Sales Lion, but he started as a pool builder. And in the early days of the web, he started writing blog posts about, what's a better pool? Is it a concrete pool or a fiberglass pool?

Darryl:                    How much do they cost?

Edmund:                Yeah, exactly, he talked about stuff that people, other pool builders, didn't want to talk about. "Oh, come in, and we'll talk about the price." He wrote about it, and he was straight up; he was honest. He shared all the information that he could, which built him, at that time, a lot of trust because no one else was having these conversations. And so, yeah he ended up, the story, it's old now, but he ended up selling four or five million bucks' worth of pools just from people who found his content on the internet and then called him up. So he started his business that way and now he's teach other people to do it.

                                    But another classic example is some clients of mine in the health and wellness space. And I'm talking about a business called 180 Nutrition, and they sell high-quality protein products. But a cool part of their strategy is this blog, this video podcast that they do, where they basically went out an interviewed every leading health and wellness expert out there, and I'm not talking about woo-woo people who don't really know, aren't science based; they interviewed scientists, they interviewed doctors, people who are on the cutting edge of health and wellness research. And if you go and look at their back catalog, they've got hundreds of interviews with the leading experts. And it helps their customers, because their customers have an opportunity to have their questions asked to the right people. Their content sits on their blog; they've built an audience of people who constantly follow their videos and listen to their podcasts as well as find them through Google, right?

                                    And they just did this systematically, you know; once every fortnight they put out these great interviews. But it was the two founders of the company who did that on an ongoing basis. And that's helped build their business, and build a lot of trust, right? And not just getting-

Darryl:                    Yeah. And there's certainly simple strategies. And folks we are going to talk strategies, and techniques, and ways to do it in future episodes. But this episode is, we're not going to go through and say do that thing, do this thing.

Edmund:                Absolutely.

Darryl:                    But we will give you lots of examples. And the answer to that is, those guys at 180 Nutrition, that was what they really dug in; they really got into it, okay? Other people will go, "Hey I love chatting to people so I'm going to do podcasts, because I like it," or a video. There's someone a know, a real estate agent, who has a lot of involvement with lots of small businesses and stuff and she's trying to focus in on a locality, being local. Hyper-local, wants to be. So she goes and does videos with businesses in her zone. And posts them on her social media and all the rest of them.

                                    Now, she's not selling, she doesn't do commercial real estate. She does residential. But what she's trying to do is be helpful in the zone that she's involved in, and show that she's connected, and she'll learn stuff every day. She's meeting people in that area. Now, does she write blog posts all the time? No. Does she do other things? No. Because that's something she felt comfortable with, learned the techniques, and worked on it, and then, keeps going through. Other people find social media things that work really well for them.

                                    The important thing is, you have to be doing something. We live in an information age. That's not new news. It's not new. I have been doing this for over 20 years. And I can tell you, I have two children that are 20 or over, and they are not new kids or new babies; they are young adults. So this online space is not a baby; it's not an infant. It is a teenager or a young adolescent that is well and truly on its way to maturity. There's still a lot of stuff in it, but not doing this is just irresponsible because, 2018 internet figures just came out the other day. About the worldwide usage of internet. How much of it is on mobile, how much of it is using social media and querying internet day-in, day-out. And we're over 50% worldwide of everyone; I think it was like 62% or 71% internationally with internet penetration. And you know, like that's where the audience gathers its research.

                                    And you talked about it at the beginning, about how we are a little bit different as consumers. Way back when in the early days before the internet, you only had limited choices to get your knowledge. So you'd go to the libraries, you could go to experts, you've got conferences that were much bigger for their very reason and you went and listened to experts. But if you're in a retail space, you were limited to the channels available to you. So people didn't necessarily gather the same info. They could fall for a sales technique or whatever. It was because their need had to be met, and they weren't able to visibly see the wider marketplace.

                                    But now, I can get answers to any question. I can determine if the rollers on my sliding windows are causing grief, you know, not working, is it something I can get replaced, or do I have to get a new window? And I see to it, because I can watch a video on how you replace the rollers. And then the helpful hints and stuff will tell me "No actually, yours is now damaged [inaudible 00:31:33]." But I can make that determination. So I don't even need a sales pitch.

Edmund:                That's right.

Darryl:                    What I'm now looking for is a whole different thing. So you have to be playing in that marketplace. And you have to be understanding that, and producing content that your audience is going to resonate with, not what you think is good content. But you test it, right? That's the other thing that you can do now, isn't it? And we know if the audience likes our content because they interact with it and respond.

Edmund:                Yeah. The point you made there was the fact that you have to be doing something, you have to be creating something. My SEO mentor, Leslie [Rodi 00:32:12], a guy I learnt SEO from many years ago, one key point he always said was that, talking about search engines, he said, "The key element of all of this is a piece of content, that sits on a single page, that can be discovered by a search engine. If you don't have that single piece of content on that single page, it will never get found." Right? So produce something. Put it out there; let the world find it.

Darryl:                    And you know, just a funny story on that, right? So years and years ago, I had a phone call at the agency, you know, and this is back when we had SEOs and [inaudible 00:32:48].

Edmund:                A-ha. Don't trust those guys.

Darryl:                    A long time ago. "You know, my guy is just doing a crap job. He used to be really good, everything was going great, but you know, we've put up this new product and just can't find it anywhere. Like, nowhere. I think he's just not interested anymore; he's not doing [inaudible 00:33:06]."

                                    So they were a party supply company. You know, like renting stuff and all that. And the piece of stuff that they wanted found was sumo suits. You know the big suits you put on- [crosstalk 00:33:16]

Edmund:                Yeah, the bubble suits right?

Darryl:                    Really distinctive, really clear niche, so this guy was right to say, "Hey, there's not that many people in town that do sumo suits. We should be getting found for this, right?"

                                    So from that perspective he was absolutely right. So I went, "Okay, what's your site?" And this was just in a phone conversation. And so I had a look at the site, and sure enough on the home page, great big image, a couple of people in sumo suits, the words "sumo suits!" And then, don't click anywhere. Okay. So I'm looking around, I'm going, "So where's the page that you ..." "What do you mean?" So across this whole site, there was not one page with the words "sumo suits" on. The search engine is not able to read the text in this image, and identify it as a piece of text, this is your point right? If there is no content.

                                    And so understanding the role of content, and the content you have, that's like, and we've all done things like this, like, you couldn't click to a page to see more about their services, because there was no content about the services. One image with the words "sumo suit" embedded in the image was what they had. And I just politely said, "Dude. The problem here is you." "What do you mean!" I said, "Go back to you guy and apologize to him and say, 'I actually spoke to someone else because we thought you were doing a wrong job, and he pointed out to me that I had no content that could be optimized and found, and that we need to solve that.'" And he kind of laughed, he went away.

                                    But it was an obvious thing, what you just said. It's a page of content that search engine can index. Or it's a resource or a piece of content that you share, because we ought to be a bit broader, it's not just about search engines. You might share an image that says, "The 40+-Year-Old Guy's Guide to Not Having Sore Knees." Right? So you might be a physical treatment person that has this great process that 90% of the guys over 40 that you do this for, that all played sport and damaged their knees earlier, they do this and they do these exercises and they eat this one thing and whatever it might be, are pain-free. So you have this guide, and you produce the guide, put an ad up, and a little teaser, and you draw people into your website and they get this guide. You know that isn't even a page on a website, but it's getting discovered, but you've got to have the piece of content first, right?

Edmund:                Absolutely.

Darryl:                    There's a lot of people, create an ad for something but they don't even have a piece of content at the destination.

Edmund:                Exactly. And it's not just for SEO, it's for paid ads, it's for all sorts of stuff. Content exists everywhere. But I think that point that you made then was that technical issue, right? So that's kind of some of the stuff we're going to be talking about down the track maybe. I thought what would have been cool is to talk about what other stuff is in our next episodes you reckon we should talk about for people? Around content and stuff.

Darryl:                    Yeah, all right. Well so, we are going to cover the "what Jenny wants" concept, which is, who are you serving, what do they need, and I have another term that's really, really interesting, called "not drinking your own bathwater," and we'll talk about that in the next episode. So if you want to know that is, and why I use that phrase in business, that'll be in the next episode. So that'll be a, we're going to do a lot love, that's going to be our Valentine's Day episode. So we'll share a lot of love about ... Because attracting people, and targeting people, is all about relationships, right? And understanding who you like and what you like, all that stuff.

                                    And then we're going to talk about return on investment, for the content. And that's going to be the following episode most likely. And then we're going to follow that up, we're going to step away from content directly I think after we've done a few of these. And we're going to talk about a more typical thing that really focuses on SEO, which is link-building. And I think, we've prepped you, you're going to do a great session on practical link building strategies for small and medium business owners, to make some change now.

                                    And the reason that's going to come after a bit of the content stuff, and before we get to really detailed "hey go and change your content on this page because of this reason," is so that you understand that when you get links, people will link to good content. You know, like that's the best way to get a link, not just, "I get a link."

                                    And I think that'll do it. But we're kind of prepping. And I guess I'd like to say that if people will listen, we would love you to tell us and ask us, what content things you would like to hear about. Because we have a whole raft of hands-on practical, tactical stuff we're going to get into over the next coming months, where we're going to take one content idea and talk about how you could apply that in your business; we'll get some examples, but we'd happily do a review of your content for your problem, your question, and talk about ways you could solve it was well. So this will be a little bit more like a workshop-py thing.

                                    So we're open to helping you in the best ways possible. But that's what's coming up in the next few episodes that we're going to cover. And I think we've probably almost hit the mark then, my friend.

Edmund:                Yeah. So you reckon that's it for today?

Darryl:                    I reckon.

Edmund:                That's good. Well, thank you again for listening; we really appreciate you having, coming along for the ride! Let's try that again. Now look, if you want to see the show notes or get access to any of the resources that we've talked about in the episode today, just visit BloodyWebsite.com, or subscribe to us on iTunes. And if you enjoyed it, please leave a review ...

Darryl:                    Yes, more reviews!

Edmund:                More reviews, please. It really helps. Seriously, it does help people find it, and it makes us feel good too. And it'll make you feel-

Darryl:                    Could I interrupt you here? I'm going to interrupt you, please.

Edmund:                Yes.

Darryl:                    So the reason we're doing this podcast is because we want to help people. We've been doing this job for 20 years each plus. So there's no sales thing at the end of these episodes. We're not selling you anything. There's nothing to buy here. We want you to get something from this podcast. So if you like it, we want you to share it with other people so they can get some value and we can share what we know. Sorry, go on.

Edmund:                No, at the end of the day that's it; that's perfect. I mean we see so many issue through, if someone can learn and save a bit of money and save a lot of pain and suffering through listening to the podcast then great. So please feel free to share it.

                                    That's it I reckon. So, we'll hope to see you next week, when we'll continue this discussion about My Bloody Website. It's goodbye from me ...

Darryl:  And it's goodbye from him.