25: Should you use prebuilt wordpress themes

25: Should you use prebuilt wordpress themes

WordPress themes are everywhere, there are so many choices available today including those as part of frameworks as well as stand-alones.

They make life easy and you can save a lot of time and money.

But should you use them? Would you be better served by getting a well optimised custom design? We discuss your options in today's episode.

Resources for this Episode

Darryl: Hi I'm Daryl King and my co-host Ed Pelgen we're a couple of old internet guides have been running our online agencies for over 20 years we get together weekly to talk about all the things online especially for small and medium business owners who still refer through their bloody website each week we look at tackling a range of online issues and put them in plain language so anyone can understand how to make the websites work better for their businesses Ed this is episode 25 we're gonna touch on a whole lot of WordPress theme issues I believe how are you?

Edmund: Very good and yourself Darryl?

Darryl: yeah excellent mate excellent I reckon I reckon we should I want you to tell our audience some of the experiences you have with WordPress you've been hacking WordPress sites for 20 odd years or not quite that long hasn't always been around but and you and I chat sometimes when you have frustrations or things that have come

Edmund: Yeah

Darryl: along and over the last few years I've shake your view on that but I think you have insight probably quite similar to a lot of the people in the audience that are building sites on their own got people building them for them putting a lot of trust in the end result that they get and maybe you might have some insight how how do you go about handling making your WordPress look pretty

Edmund: absolutely so my I guess my experience with WordPress is similar to a lot of other people who wanna get actively involved in building their sites right many years ago when I was a small business owner just starting out and I wanted to build a website I didn't have the budget to pay an expensive web developer or agency to build it for me and but I also had an interest in learning how to use it and you know WordPress was the choice the CMS the content management system of choice for startup type businesses and small businesses entrepreneurs and so I got into WordPress that way and the challenge was like everyone you wanted to make your website your business look good you wanted it to function well and you wanted it to make you look professional because there are a million in one really crappy looking WordPress websites out there and so my experience was you know basically because I don't have a design bone in my body but I know what I like led me to WordPress themes to to get the look and feel I guess that I was after to make me look bigger and better than I was I suppose and that's where it started

Darryl: and going beyond that pathway and then look the environment has changed from the early days of WordPress to where we are now you know from a blogging platform we kind of skinned it and most people use the default to what we have now which is proper content management systems and I think with Gutenburg coming you know like in page editing the whole lot so it's changed a lot but what were the or what problems have you come across when you you know it's install a theme and then you didn't like it after a while change or what but but what things in general what problems have you come across with with getting a theme

Edmund: well I mean I guess the first thing was that I would install a theme and back in the early days getting the configuring the theme was really challenging right back in the early days I don't think there were any default rules about how to do it and each developer had their own style or their own approach to building out the the content elements on the page and so as a business owner and I'm still new to this it was frustrating right some of the instructions weren't as good as they could be and some of the results weren't as pretty as they they could have been and or what I expected and so there was a lot of hacking and bashing you know and a lot of sticky tape to make it work basically and and the the the I guess the issue was every the space grew and changed a lot and so there were whether always these new superstar designers coming on onto the space and providing all these themes and so there was a general tendency I suppose every six months to jump from design to design or designer to designer because they offered a whole suite of themes you know and so you'd constantly yeah switching new themes to try to see if something looked better you know there was there was a lot of that happening and often it would break it would break that the the functionality of the site and you spend a lot of time you know having to re tweak things and mess around so rather than actually doing work selling stuff you know I spent a lot of time working on my website which was a bit frustrating

Darryl: yeah well would be our mention and I think that's a common problem and I probably another thing that happens is seeing one recently where someone had been using a theme structure for a number of years it can become quite daunting to migrate out of it so particularly in an era at the moment where is a big push that everything should be mobile responsive

Edmund: Yeah

Darryl: and performance and all these other things there can be a lot of legacy theme engineered themes that you'd like to maybe drop

Edmund: yeah

Darryl: or change but it can be quite frightening I think for people that are self-managing got a small team or you know they’re developers long gone and they've got this baby that they have to nurture and they wanna change it, they wanna change up and suddenly it becomes quite quite daunting I think because

Edmund: yeah yeah

Darryl: they people don't fully understand necessarily how it's all going together

Edmund: well I think

Darryl: They find a bigger one to handle yeah

Edmund: absolutely well one of the things that struck me was the fact that okay I could I could use a theme to get to get up and running really quickly make me look good but inevitably there was always additional functionality right you know sometimes I might want listings of products sometimes I might you know let's say on a real estate type site I wanted to display it in a certain way and I saw a lot of themes come out that catered to all of these obscure functionalities and say I just like install a plug-in or upgrade the theme and it was really awesome right I just there's a great plug-in for this or a plug-in for that

Darryl: Yeah

Edmund: and so from from a business owners perspective the idea are using these plugins to expand your website affordably and you know for free basically a lot of these plugins are free it was great right so you just install a plug-in and wow I've got all this new functionality I mean that was great from that perspective but I mean as you and I know there were there were legacy issues involved with just willy-nilly installing plugins

Darryl: and I think that in a lot of cases what you said at the beginning of that was I saw this theme I thought it would look good that's what I wanted there's two problems in that that I see one of them I know and a couple of episodes we might talk in more depth about it would so we're planning to talk about planning about website planning yeah so

Edmund: yeah

Darryl: but you know a lot of people go to it and say oh I like that theme I'm gonna make my website like that and I think fundamentally that's how people are thinking about themes and that's how themes think about people that are you're buying a look and then you're wedging yourself into it so we've all seen the examples of that like skinny jeans not all of us can fit skinny jeans but we like to look right so we're gonna try and force our self in get them sprayed on then we walk around with you know a waist hanging over the top bursting can't move can't he can't do anything right and and to some degree that analogy is really accurate because I get a theme the theme has restrictions and will maybe go into them a little bit more I get it yes I can replicate the look of the homepage that was there so I can wedge my content into it by making it fit what they gave me but then I want this other functionality like you talked about and that's a trip hazard because you know that's like hey I got the skinny jeans on if 15 sizes too small now someone said bend down and pick that thing up off the floor tie your shoe up and I can't function easily doing that and I've got to come up with a hack or I can't do it at all and and that happens with websites yeah but we really need this but the theme won't cater for so what happens is you end up getting work done custom into this thing and I'll go into that maybe a bit more in a minute but you get this problem of I wedged me into the theme rather than planning what I needed and going to choose what would suit that

Edmund: that's that's that's perfectly right I mean that to me is the biggest disadvantage of a theme that I'm seeing from people's behavior is what you just said that people fit their businesses into the theme because the theme has this type of page and it has content blocks on the home page I've got to fill it with something even if they don't suit the business even if they don't help the business meet their need so that's the biggest disadvantage so maybe this is a great lead-in to you telling me as a professional web designer and builder maybe we should have a talk about you know what what are the biggest disadvantages you see with using a theme and then maybe you know what are some of the advantages there and that'll help lead this discussion on

Darryl: okay well why don't we why don't we talk about what a theme

Edmund: yes

Darryl: and let's break it down a little bit in plain language so WordPress is a piece of software that’s effectively a content management system and one of the things I think that WordPress do really well is that they only provide the core so what they provide is the base and they maintain that it's open source so big community does it but but there's this core WordPress that's maintained now they don't have lots of widgets to do default WordPress things they could cover everything like you know in theory the organization and the programmers that manage the core WordPress itself maybe they could plug in all these elements themselves why doesn't it do this why doesn't it do that but this is that one of the great things about it it came from the simple blogging engine that produced websites it's all it needed to do some basic pages some basic posts and a way of displaying them in a fairly rudimentary manner so so that's the core and I don't think it's varied that much from there I mean you know technically there's a lot of differences from how it started but that's all it is so what's the role of a theme in that is that the theme is to make the core functionality look okay and to provide some variety right you know using genes you can get denim jeans straight blue jeans you can get you know tie-dye you can get black green molt you can get age you can get torn you people like to have style differences right and that's you know when we talk about customizing some of your business that's the role of the theme to the first level hey I want to make this look a little differently on a left sidebar right sidebar I want a bigger header  smaller header and in the early days these were the small variances that a theme could do to the role of the theme to a large degree is styling now the evolution that came along was that people like WordPress the concept of plugins allowed you to do other things so a lot of plugins are made by third-party developers yes I would like to do this I'd like to do that there's a lot of sense in packaging up things to create, out-of-the-box thing or an out-of-the-box experience it says oh I'm a real estate agency I want listings I want pages about my agents I want some contact forms I've got rental homes you know I've got those things so it makes sense and you can buy a theme or get a theme and install it and it will do a number of these things likewise if you're just a blogger but you want you know a pretty funky style you know you don't want text extracts on the front you want masonry tiles you know there's lots of ways to do it so the theme then becomes not just a bit of styling but it's actually the controlling part that gives you the design and the functionality for that design because you can't have them without right if I'm gonna have a listing showing the latest listing shown on the home page I need a plugin sorry I need a widget that's going to put that on the home page and there's a lot more you can do with WordPress and you could could earlier on and it was harder to do some of the stuff earlier on and so some of the themes back then came up with unique ways to do it based on what WordPress allowed them to do in the core and so some themes you know required a gazillion short codes and widgets and sidebars and you had sidebars embedded on the home page and sidebars put in the footer and sidebars on the sidebar and and then within that you could apply stuff so that so people built themes that in numerous ways and you talked about it different developers would approach it a different way so that's what a theme is a theme helps you style and control what your site's doing now just to correct something you said a little bit earlier whether you get custom development done whether you use the theme out of the box one of the basic themes that comes WordPress or you buy a theme you do not you cannot operate work without some sort of thing so there is not theme less WordPress you you have to have a theme it can be a clean skin I got white with a black heading that's all I've got simple fonts but it's still a theme

Edmund: Ehmm

Darryl: and then basically we layer levels of complexity on themes to make them do more so the first thing you everyone has to have a theme in the WordPress or it won't you can't see anything you know properly at that and that's what we have to have so everyone needs a theme If I uses a theme whether they realize it or not

Edmund: yep now one thing that's started confusing the heck out of me in the early piece was some people started talking about this thing called a theme framework can you tell me what that is and how that fits into this whole idea of themes

Darryl: yeah sure you know they came about I think based around the complexity issue and the early years I don't know myself whether they had the same relevancy anymore I mean a lot of people still use them but a framework was basically where there was like a master theme that was installed and that gave you some core functionality that extended WordPress so rather than I've always got to install all these different plugins and missions together people would build a series of plugins themselves and allow them to work with like a parent theme and then to style stuff they would have child themes so an example of this is thesis or Genesis two of the bigger ones that were I've been around historically for quite a period of time you install the Genesis theme but you don't activate it and then you pick one of their child themes and they have free and paid ones and that gives it a look but what the underlying framework allows is you'd use their plugins and they set things up a certain way so they'll code things they try to optimize experiences and customizer and things they'll give your ability to do stuff and good examples of this are you know like putting Google Analytics into a site now you can manually edit a child theme put it into the theme function files you can install a plug-in that inserts it what for example in Genesis they'll be like insert headers and footers that's inbuilt into the framework so in your settings on the side you can just go in and there's a place to put it in and that's consistent across their whole framework so no matter which Genesis theme you've got fundamentally there's a real consistency about some of the core underlying stuff that the themes themselves the child things completely changed the way it looks and different themes would have different child themes will have different plugins required or different configuration options so you still have to configure it it's not like oh I go from this thing to this thing and it just flips over but the underlying core stuff the core settings of the site some of the core things that you might add in some special things that you might add they build under the framework and you're buying into the concept of that this framework will be around a long time I didn't get familiar with it I can change the theme over time but I'm very familiar with the recent posts plugin with the you know listings plugin whatever it might be and so framework gives you a ball (16:49 B of work from a pin ) that in theory would make your experience better and for a long time it did I think for a lot of people

Edmund: Yeah

Darryl: there there are probably things called frameworks now I don't know if they fit quite the same way larger themes kind of call them so yeah some people call it framework seems like Divi stuff like that yeah maybe it is maybe is it to me it's just a very detailed theme with a lot of stuff in it I don't know if it if technically I would call it the same way maybe they do maybe they don't you know people some people call them frameworks but that's that's what a framework is that kind of gives you this infrastructure to build off

Edmund: okay do you know what I think would be really helpful for our listeners is if you can give us some insight as to when they should choose to use a theme let's say to build their website or whether a custom design would be a better choice for them

Darryl: okay so clarify the way you worded there I know what you mean but just to go back to my point because all both parties need a theme so even if if you came to me and said I wanna you custom design a website and WordPress for me we would be using an underlying basic theme and creating a child theme off it so so no matter what you do you gotta get theme but well I think you're saying there is to go and buy and off-the-shelf theme and install or a free one or to get this site custom design correct

Edmund: basically yes

Darryl: yeah okay so look budgets gonna come in to all this to a massive degree because quite simply getting someone to build a site for you is gonna cost more than just installing a theme that's just simple simple fact so what are the advantages of getting off-the-shelf thing okay it's ready-made what you see in the demos invariably will work if you know if it's built by someone that's half okay you'll install it follow their instructions and it will look that way and there will be some preset options some variations you can do to that look you can change the theme color from yellow to green to blue so you have a little bit of very variation so that that's an advantage that time to get that done is very quick you know you can download and install 10 minutes done and dusted I mean a theme installation and WordPress is uploading as default it's done if you're if you're getting it from the theme libraries it's it's automatic so it's it's very easy to get that done so that that's important that that's another advantage if you know it's something small and you really don't have the budget it's going to have those advantages are going to weigh out really heavily for you and you the disadvantages that you will have to sit with there are that it may not quite work the way you might be familiar with another theme so the developer will have put it together using their tools there's no consistent way for the interface behind in the WP admin for them to control so some have highly design laid out screens others use bare bones some wedges them into the customizer it is quite different so there's a learning curve that you have understand second thing is you are getting what they give you so if you when you're looking at the demo if there's three pages and that's it there shouldn't be an expectation that you're gonna get more than that and what I mean by that is you you can obviously add pages to WordPress no problem but if you want additional styling if if the home page add two panels side by side with a background image and overlay text and no other page has three or four or two on two it's possible that you can't even do that like some themes are really restricted in the way they've built they don't bring in like a page builder necessarily and say oh you just clone it like it's not inherently obvious to a lower-level person lower level being not highly familiar with doing coding being or manipulating WordPress that way how they would do it so you're gonna be restricted to where I can clone that page style I could do that again and again and again on every other page some things will have lots of variations of page layouts and styles and you choose them and others won't so that so there are some disadvantages but invariably there is a limit to what the styling they have preset for you can do so that's that's a disadvantage now will it cover everything you want quite possibly there's absolutely no reason it might not but you have to be aware that's gonna happen another disadvantages they will package and bundle plugins with the theme that you you can choose to uninstall but they make the thing work now Ed we might what will I talk about being aware of that later but there are advantages and disadvantages in that advantages you don't have to go looking for them disadvantages you're trusting that they're giving you a good plugin and that there's no problems with them so that so there's that now the way that they allow you to enter content so one theme might have you put it into a widget another one it might be in within a page builder element so if you wanna change theme in six months’ time in six years’ time it's unlikely that your content will easily just move between themes because the next theme you choose will won't have widgets in that space so there can be some difficulty in just flicking on a new one of off and and look even in a lot of frameworks that's the same it's not a hundred percent true but there can be issues with that where it's you know you're suddenly doing the whole you're rebuilding again your site when you change the theme and to some degree I'd say that's what you should be prepared to do anyway because that's fundamentally what you're doing

Edmund: yeah

Darryl: the other disadvantage is you're getting I've already said it you're getting what's out of the box and I said it earlier that you are planning or whether you're building a website and I'm planning it around the theme and what it can do so there's a disadvantage there and that you you have to fit your stuff into what exists now the flip side of that is you could consider that an advantage is that because there is parameters define visual layout page styling etc. it gives you boundaries you've just got to fill it in so you know what you've got to build you know what you've got a ride you know what images you've got to replace and so it actually gives you some boundaries to say well I just do these things I have a site built and so so there's you know pros and cons across this whole thing and another big advantage is you know like you can get a lot of free themes right

Edmund: Hmmm

Darryl: so you don't even have to pay and a lot of paid themes can be 25 50 US dollars then you know you can get some pretty neat looking themes one other disadvantage and I think this is important if you're talking brand if you're talking business I think it's less of a disadvantage if you're just a blogger and you're just you know just someone that's just you know preforming it your building this just as a hobby business I'll be less worried about what I'm gonna say now but but it's like stock photos on unsplash and pixels and

Edmund: Hmm

Darryl: stuff you can see similar ads in blog posts with the same pictures because hey it's a good picture it's free to use I can use it a lot of popular themes have been used you know they're popular for a reason people like what they do but now you're certain my site have got a distinct similarity about them there's not the same yeah it's not a degree of uniqueness and what we're doing then is putting up generic content putting up very similar-looking sites what our unique advantage so that so that's probably advantages and disadvantages of a pre-board off-the-shelf theme custom design you could pretty much go anywhere you like there are negatives in it as well I mean at the end of the day getting a designer to do it doesn't mean they aren't gonna use a theme off-the-shelf and most cases they will so the issue there is you aren't conscious in the choice you are not consciously picking theme you get a theme and plugins that your developer gives you and you're trusting their knowledge now hopefully you've had dialogue with them whereas you're unlikely to get dialogue with a 20-dollar theme

Edmund: Hmmm

Darryl: of thin forests so you know but you know the the one of the disadvantages you won't get reviews of their WordPress theme and plugins on theme sites you can read reviews and see support for the theme so you know there's different site so what you're banking on with a custom developer is hey I'm looking at their testimonials

Edmund: Right

Darryl: the work they've done before seeing what they've done

Edmund: or you're getting into my next question then really is is if if I'm in the market for a theme right I'm budget constrained I've got more time on my hands and I wanna do this myself how how do I pick a good thing what what elements am I looking for right if I go to these marketplaces how do I pick one that is gonna do the things that we are aware of you know good for us (26:05…?) or and and avoid some of those challenges you talked about

Darryl: so I might just finish that bit about the custom design and lead straight into that

Edmund: Alright

Darryl: because (26:14…?) so when you get a custom design done if you plan it properly and if you know what you want you're not gonna have the issues of ah I can't extend it because part of what you should be doing there is oh this is a style for this page of these landing pages look like this this is part of my requirement set so you should be scoping out and getting a vast array of what you want and if that person is gonna be around their business has been around for a long time you've got ongoing support and you've got changes and you can and you can work through it so I think they're you know they're like I said pros and cons on both you know you'll pay a lot more for a custom one you you are going you have to accept that you know their construction has done their way just like you would think but you have more input through the build process so looking at then how do I pick a good theme or avoid bad things well if if we're just talking downloadable themes and getting a theme you wanna make sure that there are some reviews about this

Edmund: Hmmm

Darryl: and really read through them a lot of people fan boy or girl particular themes because I was cool blah blah you don't know the context of what they're doing and then you wanna have a good look at sites do they have sites hey here's my themes been used as their exam examples like that not everyone has that if you can get a sense of what's packaged in I mean a good way to do it is obviously if you have a spare development environment and if your hosting allows you to do a staging version as download download the free theme and install them and have a look at what they've got now if it's a paid theme you're not going to just keep going through but you can reach out and ask the developers will what plugins are in your theme if they don't have them listed now one of the one of the things that I talked about earlier was the inclusion of plugins now a really good example was a few years back one of the most popular slider plugins which is called revolution slider

Edmund: hmm

Darryl: was included in how many themes I don't know but it was a free or open version was included you didn't get (28:22 a lot) since to upgrade it because the thing developer didn't pay for there and it was a nice way of promoting this slider that guys who had the premium version you know got it out place it and it's a very good slider but it got hacked and it got hacked really badly in the free version basically was a massive backdoor into websites the problem being there the natural thing you do as soon as you hear this plugins got a problem or WordPress got an urgent release you go and update and this plugin wasn't updatable because people didn't have the premium license so they had to then go sign up for it and get it and place it and a lot of people just didn't even know how to do that so so here was this really popular plugin that was included in all these themes and you didn't have control of it so that's the thing to look at you know what things are included can I easily upgrade them can I upgrade the plugins can I am I getting premium versions or not unlikely that you would for a 20 or 50 Dollar theme picking a good theme have a look at the demos go through check the developer if you come like well you know we should probably talk about where you might find these things you can obviously Google WordPress themes but they're places like theme forest and Varro and a whole array of sites like that that sell themes go there look at the reviews and do some research go back to the developers site if they've got one try and see examples of how it's working test the theme on your devices before you install it before you go there but have a real think about I mean I would hop on and say plan your site plan your site plan your site so when you go looking for the theme you're looking for one that says this will match what I needed to do but don't get caught up on moving parts and you know oh how pretty that is how is it gonna work long-term and then ultimately and tell you install it you're gonna have a lot of difficulty

Edmund: hmmm

Darryl: bad themes don't necessarily show up so much until you've got them installed and and bad is maybe the wrong word choice but if you read the reviews about support for the theme from the theme developer you'll get a sense of communication skills words of changing the experiences I've had with problematic themes is that the instructions are shocking there's a lot of customization requires you to really work with HTML and lob it in and imports sample content and stuff which can be quite daunting for someone that just does not

Edmund: hmmm

Darryl: really understand that whereas better themes and some of the ones in themed frameworks you literally install stat sheet you need these plugins these are ones that go with it install them now so it comes with an installer they ought to install them they have fully documented things so if you're looking at Genesis when you go there they have a whole series of pages about how to set up their theme that that's one example there's a lot of other developers they have the same things they have held notes documentation

Edmund: hmmm

Darryl: so be looking for that because at the end of the day it won't be as straightforward as you think there will be because assumptions made by the developer because they get it they just install install install they know how to do those things that documentation or is super super important for and you know like there's one that I use a lot which is the I use site origin themes I really like them big shout out to the boys in South Africa they are doing a great job with it their site origin page builder is really lightweight really really easy to use performance is really good and they have a bunch of things we actually use one of their child themes a lot to just use as a base skin and we build our custom themes from it but it comes with this really cool stuff what it does they're an awesome support form

Edmund: hmmm

Darryl: and they have great documentation everything's pretty obvious so those are the sorts of things you wanna look for the same way you should for plugin right really just investigate it don't just get it

Edmund: Yeah

Darryl: cuz Mary or Bob had it you know because you probably hear on Facebook they go oh my girl my website just breaks all the time and all the stuff like yeah actually find out about how works

Edmund: yep I think that's really important especially if they're looking for theme they're gonna hear about a marketplace called theme forest and when you first see theme forest as a beginner as someone who's looking for a theme your eyes light up it's like all of your Christmases have come because there are these beautiful designs templates but the trouble is people flow to where the money is and there have been a few really successful themed designers on Theme Forest and it's encouraged a rush of really poor quality developers to Russian and build these these themes and they they have a tendency to just you know overload the theme with as many plugins with as many bells as whistles bells and whistles as they can to make it look like you're getting amazing value but the reality is like what you just said it becomes hugely complex for the beginner to install and there's a massive overhead that comes with all of these extra plugins and and the instructions are poor and they're just interested in making the sales right and sometimes the designs the demo content they create from my perspective they look pretty they've got a lot of moving objects and sliders and and things and they're not necessarily easy to configure or even good for you you know

Darryl: yeah I agree and the reason I don't use big frameworks is in a lot of cases I find that there's so many things included that I just don't want well this there's a lot of weight to it that just I just don't see the need for anymore and look and I think this this is what's happening across the whole community that it's changing all the time and and if I look at even like one of the big plugins like WooCommerce you're using WordPress you know it's struggled earlier on they had problems and those competitors but progressively now they're embedding into a core functionality that you would have to extend and do and there's the button but were the parameters if they go too far suddenly you'll have this unwieldy beast

Edmund: hmmm

Darryl: and and I think that's the thing with a lot of themes and some frameworks and things is that you know how much do I actually need you know a lot of this is about performance yeah and because you and you see the thing happen right oh I use this theme I use these tools and then the performance integrates and then you gotta have this specific hosting for it because then it's got to be highly optimized for our environment and all the rest of it like at the end of the day come on you know like we're over doing some of this and I I've seen one recently which performances ordinary the number of plugins and widgets required to get this thing to its job versus if I rebuild it here like this it would be faster to build faster to run all of that

Edmund: wonderful

Darryl: but yeah I think we've probably I think that's probably enough in that regard I mean be a little bit cautious when you're scanning through those sites

Edmund: yeah

Darryl: check out reviews best you can have a good look at it you know a good one has a good working demo if they can't keep their demo running if all of their stuff looks exactly the same you know if you go you know what that does feel clunky on my mobile that doesn't quite work it yeah they haven't even optimized it on the mobile of you

Edmund: yeah

Darryl: you know like just move on because there are tens of thousands of themes you can choose from and yeah you're not limited by choice but you are there like you said there's a massive array of quality.

Edmund: excellent look I think that was a really good episode I think what Darryl said if I just to reiterate just do your research right and a lot of these marketplaces will have places where people have got questions and make a valuable comments and they've got a support mechanism so just do your research and don't get it don't get too caught up in all the fancy bells and whistles and sometimes less is more anything else Darryl to wine this episode up you feel that needs to be said

Darryl: no I don't think so I think it's that's probably a good wrap on the understanding what WordPress Theme is and what to look for anything

Edmund: wonderful all right and that's it for today so thanks again for listening we really appreciate having you along for the ride if you wanna see the show notes and get access to any resources we talked about and links to some of the sites that we talked about today just check out this post and to be notified about new episodes just visit bloodywebsite.com wants to subscribe to the podcast at iTunes also if you enjoyed this podcast please leave a review in iTunes it really helps other people find the podcast we hope to see you next week when we'll continue this chat about my bloody website it's goodbye from me

Darryl: Goodbye from him