Ep 26: What To Do When You Don’t Know What You Don’t Know

Ep 26: What To Do When You Don’t Know What You Don’t Know

With online marketing, more often than not we don't know where to start when facing an complex problems. But what if you aren't aware what the problem is?

In today's episode we talk about what to do when you don't know what you don't know.

Resources for this Episode

Darryl: Hi I'm Darryl King and my co-host Ed Pelgen were a couple of old internet guys who's been running our online agencies for more than 20 years we get together weekly talk about all things online especially for small and medium business owners or executives who are still referring to their website as their bloody websites each week we aim to tackle a range of online issues put them in plain language so anyone can understand how to make their website work better for their business this is episode 26 and it's titled what to do when you don't know what you don't know good day Edmund

Edmund: hey Darryl How are you?

Darryl: good buddy

Edmund: what to do when you don’t know

Darryl: what to do you when don't know what you don't know so what don't you know Edmund

Edmund: I don't know a lot of things I don't know enough not to tell people that I don't know anything

Darryl: well maybe that's a problem though because that's something I think we've come across yeah it's actually really good when you don't know what you don't know it's when you think you know and you don't know

Edmund: and that's a problem I know that much

Darryl: yeah well when we come across people quite often that go you know what I hear all the stuff I see all the stuff I see people making money online I see people whose businesses are getting loads of inquiries I can see them growing and you ask them and they say it's digital man it's all online I see people dropping offline advertising or changing this thing and some people doing this and that and I think there are two types of people like this probably more than that there's some people that just jump in and try tactics right and they go I'm gonna do this I'm gonna do that and invariably they get to a point where yeah they might have hit a gold rush a couple of times but it's not sustainable but the other group of people that people go they don't do anything because there's a little bit like they're afraid of what to do next they know they need to do there's some narrative drive behind them to make them wanna do it you know real push but they don't know where to start and I think that's really the idea behind this if so talk a little bit about that if you know you should be making change or if you know you could do something better but you have no idea exactly what it is where do you start

Edmund: absolutely and I know you and I are gonna talk about it and to some extent it's people think oh gosh I need to just ain't, hire these people who know better than me and just get them on board to do all this stuff but even that's not a solution right

Darryl yeah well and it's a strange well such a strange industry we live an industry where there are full service agencies that do everything top to bottom left to right there are inde independent or smaller agencies that might special in in one initial area you know design and development for example SEO there are people that might just focus on the marketing people and the development there are people that are strategy consultants there are traditional ad agencies that have digital as part of their suite

Edmund: Hmm

Darryl: and they're strategists cover it all and they have team so is that there's a wide array and then of course there are consultants and freelancers and there's a whole raft of people that in theory could help you I suppose a lot of people go gee why don't I get someone that solve all my problems and invariably start with I named your website that's the well I need to do some ads or we're not really doing social we go we let's get social or let's do re-targeting so they they they they hear a problem

Edmund: so this is a this is a good point right because a lot of people will will will know that there are agencies everywhere I mean you'll see them every every second every man in his dog is calling himself a digital marketer or a digital agency where does someone starts let's say they've got these questions and these issues and they know they should be doing something so what do you think they should start

Darryl: well there's probably several approaches there's probably the approach of understanding or trying to understand what it is that you're concerned about first so you know and I think the motivations that people come to it from sometimes people want a new website because they're bored with what they've got or they're embarrassed by what they've got because they think that Johnnie's down the road is better than their so comparison Artist and that's not necessarily a good starting point I mean if you go you know what I've been speaking to a bunch of business owners or I'm reading a list of podcasts I know people are getting you know loads of inquiries and we're getting none from our website all we get one a month is waste of time it's a tire kicker it's a spammer it's friggin yeah online SEO automated an email right

Edmund: hmmm

Darryl: so you go okay oh so then you're saying I want more lead so that you're coming from a problem like that if you've got a website that you know you know converts quite well for the traffic you've got you've got some understanding of that but you're unsure about you know you know you're not necessarily in the best place ranking wise or you're not sure if you're covering your opportunities properly as far as visibility on search engines that's coming possibly from a different problem if you go we know they're we're in this space and there's a lot of activity and social and we want to investigate improve what we're doing and social then again that's a I think where you come from The tool and stuff and you know who you might type in maybe the answer question better like if you have that idea wouldn't you be best to talk to someone that has expertise in that area for advice not services

Edmund: yes

Darryl: Do you get what I mean brother?

Edmund: yeah and I think that's it that's the distinction you made there is really critical because a lot of people will be tempted to rush into engaging someone to deliver a service to help solve a problem

Darryl: hmmm

Edmund: but sometimes it's better just to take some time out and hire someone to give you advice and that'll help you make a better decision about what service you need or who the service provider should be

Darryl: yeah and maybe SEO is a really good one you describe that so you go to someone from an SEO need that I'm not ranking as well or I only rank well for my brand and this one front I want to do better can you know and I think in a lot of cases people come and say I wanna do better I should be doing this rather than what could I should I be doing so I think one of the tools of the SEO search engine optimization bucket is to do an audit you know and to say what's the baseline where are we today and so auditing tools are to have a good macro view and then drill down depending on the budget and the person doing it and how big the site isn't that two (6:32…?) where you get a lot of detail so that's a good example the same well before you even go and engage someone to fix your SEO

Edmund: Hmm

Darryl: and then take their audit and their solution maybe you should just be engaging to get an audit done so that you get the base line you have a heap of questions you can ask and get answers on and determine if even the audit that you've got was as comprehensive as it could be

Edmund: yeah I think that's a great that's a great idea and I think the term audit is actually a great way of describing what we're talking about right because prior to this we talked about you know how do you get someone in who can sit down and dig through your rubbish and have a look and see what's going on and give you some idea as to where you are and it gives you insight makes you more educated and knowledgeable about your situation and you can make a better decision so I think audit is a great terminology

Darryl: and maybe there's steps of audit so if you're out there you've got a web site you've had it for a while you've got these web assets and you know you know what in 2018 what we're gonna do is we're gonna understand are they performing properly and maybe there's a sequence of audits and advice that you could get to help you and you know so the first thing might be you know is my website in good and that's an order not from our cosmic and it visual pretty perspective that from a health perspective you know when you go to the doctor for health check-up they don't think subjective use of well you're not as pretty as you could be like you know you know your life would be better if you had or maybe forget it cosmetic surgeon but but if you have a doctor they're looking at your inner health and you know they'll take some obvious cues from external things and they'll look at the your inner health so what's the inner health of a website are you looking at things we've talked about

Edmund: Hmm

Darryl: speed security over all functionality usability probably looking at language things related to conversion optimization so you know like does it is it just at a good overall level gonna pass a health check and then you go okay and so maybe and then the process would be you get an audit and then you know if you're doing okay and you know you you should get action points shouldn't like at the end of any audit there should be things you can do to improve and you should understand why they are

Edmund: so who's that who's that kind of person that I would approach to do an audit to my website just from that perspective that you just described

Darryl: they can come tome but no well I mean I think a lot of people in the design development place may if they've got good experience they'll have some experience when I think some quite a group of online marketing guys in SEO and people like that guys and gals cover this as well but not you know and I think that's the thing where you get into different specialties and so people like myself they're probably more generalist across a wide array of things from a technical level and marketing site can look at that health quite well whereas I wouldn't do a detail SEO order for people so you're looking for people that understand the crossovers between performance technology the front-end marketing designer also like a back-end developer is not really the right person

EDmun: no

Darryl: they're not gonna (9:54 have that experience) you know you're looking for someone that's got the marketing site and technical mix and don't know that there's specifically a title

Edmund: yeah it's a tough one that we (10:05….?)

Darryl: (…?)

Edmund: yeah well I mean as a as a practicing SEO expert I suppose I often come at it from an SEO perspective so people they'll approach me and say hey my SEO is not working so more often than not we we do a little audit you know they invest in a couple of hours and in a couple of hours and we can really figure out what's going on and identify some real issues right so I look at it like and that's that's what you described before they they they know that they've got an SEO issue because they're not they're not ranking they can't find the website so they come to me and it's a really good opportunity to dig into how their site is performing from an SEO perspective I won't spend a lot of time I mean yes I can say look it's not really designed well for your customer and those conversion issues but ultimately they've come to me from an SEO perspective so I'll look at it the site is it ranking for relevant keyword phrases is it getting found by people when they look in Google search is that in the Google Maps is it are they getting actual traffic from Google from from organic search are they actually making sales you know all of those things are relatively easy to answer with a few hours invested looking at you know looking at the site with some fresh eyes and some good tools

Darryl: yeah and I think someone that's got a decent experience over a period of time can cover off an overview audit like that because for example I mean I can do some quick tests say you know you don't have so if I'm doing a health check on our website and it's not going to the bottom level I will pick up things you know

Edmund: mm-hmm

Darryl: Analytics it it's not installed on the site you even look at your analytics you're not base to sell you don't have you haven't even done the basic on-page SEO elements correctly you're not showing up properly for the phrases I would expect you to show up

Edmund: correct

Darryl: you see you're gonna pick those things up so I think it crosses over anyone that's got you know a reasonable degree of experience should be able to touch on those things so anyone that that's worked in a range of these field so even a you know a UX person or a conversion specialists to some degree is gonna be able to do it but a UX person that's just a UX designer he's probably not looking at security and speed performance on your site and so you can look at conversion optimization as are these elements on the page and a copy I'm going to convert that if the page takes 4.7 seconds to load you could write the best copy in the world it probably won't get the conversion it should so there is this overarching view of just getting a sense but then I think you could get more specialized so maybe that's the way that people should approach it to get a bit of an overview get a couple of hours of overview get in order it done and then go if the person says you know what I think you need to dig further into your SEO then the next phase would be well why don't we audit that and and it's a little bit like the old model of doing HR reviews you know you do a review start performance we made our kpi's what are our suggested improvements and then you know you’re visit these things if someone goes onto performance management plan then it's it's reviewed a lot more closely in a more detail but if if someone's struggling in a particular area then you try to organize and arrange education and mentoring around that particular thing and I think it's the same with this if you know hey look visually sites seems okay you know look you've got all the basic boxes checked its speed is pretty good you know there's some things that could be done from a computer but I don't think that's your biggest problem and then and that's really what you would wanna hear from the audit you know I need to keep these in a bucket but at some point I gotta prioritize and say but you're not getting found or you know the content that you're putting up a blog is a waste of your time you're just doing that all wrong then those the areas you want to go into if you go how your SEO is wrong then you need an audit from your SEO that does look at what you were talking about and A checking out even on the right ballpark for keyword research you know are they ranking why aren't they ranking what are those basics that they needed it done

Edmund: yeah

Darryl: and then although that's a deep deeper audit that they would come back with a lot of high priority

Edmund: oh yeah and I think it's really important to mention that a lot of people get caught up with these free tools where you they say insert your website and we'll do this SEO audit and it spits out a 13 page report with 40 items and and it freaks people out and I wanna tell people that you should avoid using those tools because a lot of times they just automated tools that that might run your sites through a list of you know best practices which ideally would be great to have addressed but in the real world probably don't matter as much and

Darryl: just to clarify that you're talking about the free tools that are legion from

Edmund: correct

Darryl: agency

Edmund: yeah you see the more time

Darryl: not not a paid rules like things like (15:04…?) or stuff where they're actually getting decent and analysis of

Edmund: yeah but but even then even then even then what I would suggest is having someone with experience to look at

Darryl: hmmm

Edmund: that and being able to prioritize and say yes that's an issue but right now what's a bigger issue is that problem over there that's really important because even with those paid tools it all comes down to prioritization what is going what is the issue that needs to be addressed most quickly that is gonna have the biggest bang for buck you know and that's a challenge mmm so those free tools as lead gen tools are terrible for that because they'll list as much as possible just to make sure you pick up the phone but even the even the paid tools they do run through a list their own check lists and whilst you know when something says hey your Meta Description is 400 characters long yeah it's not great but it's not gonna negatively impact your site as opposed to some other technical issue

Darryl: okay so what we're really talking about here is that and look the whole premise of this podcast is to help people get a bit of resolved most of what we talk about comes from many years’ experience and just doing our craft but all of the knowledge is available in podcasts like this or on blog post books you can learn all of this stuff including the SEO you can learn 100% of it the element you can't learn until you do it as experience and experience speeds up the process so what you're really talking about is say well yes here is the list of stuff that's broken or not 100%accurate but experience tells us that in your circumstances if you focus on these things you're gonna get the biggest bang for the buck

Edmund: yeah

Darryl: rather than gonna have an argument with your developer about something that's really hard to implement it's gonna get you a point zero three percent impact and I think that's the same with speed and performance you know sometimes the speed testing tool said are you gonna do this one thing and you know your JavaScript loading is all wrong and if you have a look it's actually Google Analytics that's causing the problem

Edmund: that's right

Darryl: but you can guarantee that Google is not arming your rank and your performance measurement by the fact that their tools not loading they're just telling you that that doesn't comply with best practice ideal

Edmund: Yeah

Darryl: so it's balanced it's about finding balance

Edmund: yeah and at the end of the day that's what you're really you know when you get someone to you know audit your business or your site or your ads that's what you're paying for you're paying for their experience so that they can save you time and money down the track by getting you to focus on the real issues the most pressing issues

Darryl: and I guess that comes back to the title knowing what you don't know you don't know and so you can know and you and I hear it a lot we go out well it's about key words right or you know I've got a I gotta get links from here if I blog I mean common one is I got a blog every week why because that's gonna help me rank and then and that's taking elements of a tactic that's been used by people to rank and applying it was sort of vanilla I'll just do that without understanding the rest of the pieces that you don't know so elements of yes producing regular content of quality can potentially help you but just stick and content out willy-nilly without any process or whatever it might be it'll be a waste of time so maybe a piece of advice here then is well if I start where do I start I start with the basics of just does my site meet some basic criteria so I need to get some good honest feedback from someone not vested in that

Edmund: hmm

Darryl: so quite often you may have someone that does the work for you who it's not smart for them to tell you that they've done do the work that has cumulatively been done is now not good because there's you know they go maybe he did we do the wrong job or is it just over time

Edmund: hmmm

Darryl: so quite often you just need someone with different experience to look at you know what that actually doing okay you knows like that one's oh good I feel good you know so it's it's sort of like when you get an extra quote yeah you might have an insurance broker every year

Edmund: yeah

Darryl: you get the same guy and every third or fourth (19:17…?) you know what I'm gonna get two other quotes and just to make sure I'm not getting screwed over right so this is that you you get a bit of check do is it the basics happening but even if you're develop if you've got a good relation you know say I want you to stand back and look at it and just run over a basic tool of our site as if you were looking in it for the first time because also the people working with you whichever feel that probably after a period of time going you know if I could reset the clock there's some other things I might do now you know in hindsight that we know about this business so having done that I mean probably someone highly valuable that's probably heavily underrated is to find someone that is a Google analytics consultant

Edmund: hmmm

Darryl: someone that is an expert in just Google Analytics set up configuration because I think there's as much value in that as probably everything else to know that you're measuring your content you how's your site forming how you got rid of rubbish traffic all of that stuff yeah

Edmund: yeah oh absolutely look this week alone I've seen two websites two businesses that had incomplete Google Analytics implementations and what that basically means was all of the visits to their website all the behaviors that those visitors were doing weren't being tracked because not all of the pages had the Google Analytics code on so for whatever reason when they were originally set up they weren't the code wasn't added to all the pages and so what you have is an incomplete picture of the performance of your website so how are you going to make an educated decision about how its performing and what you can do so having an analytics consultant come in and spend some time a making sure that it's set up and tracking correctly and then be digging into the data and spending time explaining and giving you insight as to what the data means about how your site's performing

Darryl: I think that's the thing isn't it lucky I used an analogy of a doctor before so we go to the doctor and the doctor says you know three times in a row now your blood pressure numbers aren't quite right we need to look at that well generally that gets people's alert or you know your blood sugar levels are like this well you know you not (21:28 good enough) fine you got too much aren’t whatever those metrics are that matter in blood analysis or other things he will take note of it but I think a lot of people with their websites I mean I know for a fact do not even look at their analytics past now or what bounce rates gone up by5% then without any qualification it might be you if you were a UK only site and you know you analyzed it and said well I just wanna see the UK only traffic the bounce rate difference might be 23 percent all the bounced could be coming from Romania Russia or in America traffic you don't care about not you can't get rid of it but you can filter it out and segmented out of you data’s I think knowing true factsabout what is happening is probably as powerful and then so I think that's like stage 2 stage 2 of doing is you know like you get to get just the basics I'm at least just okay more I bring in someone like that and then you get an order down of your analytics and get things set up and then build a relationship on you don't need an analytics guy all the time

Edmund: no

Darryl: Guy’s gal girl yeah you get that analytics girl in periodically to make sure that you're on track to give you that experienced inside hey I've got it I'm checking the basics I'm checking that the format of some particular content we're putting up I'm checking ad campaigns properly but I really wanna now go back and yeah what am I missing what what am I not seeing again what don't what do I not know I don't know it might be six monthly it might be annually just to stay on track right?

Edmund: absolutely and I think it's really important to stress that you know investing in one or two hours with a couple of really smart people pays off massively over the long term and I would also recommend to people don't don't approach your consultant with the whole picture of hey can I buy you a cup of coffee I wanna pick your brains cuz that's really devaluing their time and knowledge

Darryl: well and then that's the thing you were talking about getting experienced to shortcut the knowledge learning process for ourselves because at the end of the day you will become more educated if you pay attention to this and that's why you're listening to this podcast get more educated so that you're able to make better decisions it doesn't mean you're gonna do it all yourself but what you are getting is education so if you are engaging someone with experience and you know prepared to pay for them and don't even do it because they that time that you pay for saves you months or years of reading listening learning experimenting failing all the ways think what you're saying is speed this up for me right

Edmund: that’s right

Darryl: make it quicker for me you're writing my fiction novel and publishing the book you know self-publishing I got a mentor to help me to speed that up I'm bright enough I can learn it all a lot of it you know is technical when you know I just worked my way through it but I could tell you I saved myself a lot of pain and dicking around

Edmund: that's right

Darryl: getting that help and paying for that help so Ed maybe the next ones are really depend on like you said earlier about what what is actually the problem like if you get an SEO with it it's because you've got concerns about rank but you could begetting and ordered around your Google ads or paid ads now it could be that you're looking at Facebook ads alone

Edmund: Yep

Darryl: or Twitter ads or whatever it could be social ads as a as a whole Google Ads I mean there are specialists like I can think of a couple of people I know okay one is very very focused on Google ads now can that person also do Facebook ads yes but they would hand you off for a detailed analysis

Edmund: Yes

Darryl: (in your work..?25:03) to someone and that's a specialist in Facebook and ads and you know social ads because there are differences

Edmund: yeah and I it's important to recognize that this digital marketing space is kind of like the medical field in the sense that you everyone starts out as a GP and then they choose a lot of doctors then choose to specialize and they go and study for years and this is no different right running effective Google advertising using the Google system is a complex and ever-changing space and you know yes you can go and learn it but do you have the time you know so yes you're right when it comes to Google ads if you're actually running or Google ads already then yeah it makes sense to bring an independent person in an expert who's who's knowledgeable to have a look at your campaigns look at the history and see you know see if they can come up with some ideas and recommendations about how you could do things better

Darryl: yeah people don't realize that they could lose as much money even though they think they're doing okay so you could be running ad campaigns that you're happy with the the ROI the conversion rate sales rate all that stuff the way they don't funnel the way it works you could be really happy and it could be profitable but you can also be paying twice as much as you need to from poorly optimized campaigns

Edmund: Correct

Darryl: and there is all that experience in there that you you just can't be I and maybe the a key part to this is because the way is very accessible because anyone can build a website and anyone everyone knows someone that's built one there's some build one they study at school now they do it in you know visual design and you need that everyone can do the basics of it

Edmund: Hmm

Darryl: that's like well yeah I can stick a band aid on I can apply Panadol I can do all that stuff but I'm not a GP and we know people that are Google doctors right that they you know they through all their medical stuff from Google again you don't necessarily have the ability to determine what's real information and what's not but but when you go to the consultant or when you're looking at it an ego check can be really important instead of got this all covered I know what's going on bla bla bla bla but getting some one third party just come in and talk and say look what I want is I wanna pay you to come and look at everything there's no guarantees for anything else you know but you're actually saying I don't know what I don't know well I wanna find out what I don't know instead of going oh I've got this all covered I just wanna get my ads tweaked

Edmund: mmm

Darryl: well you actually wanna do is approach people going well I'm guessing if they specialize in this like I specialize in my business you know I'm an electrician and I know everything about being an Alex person or not everything but I'm pretty good at I've been doing for 25 years there's stuff that you have an apprentice for four years for a reason right yeah they've got the textbook stuff in there but you're trying to empower an experience and standards and practice them so when you go to another field you go I know a lot about mine I think I know a lot about this for what and I work on the premise of I don't I'm gonna ask people to tell me be open honest just pay someone to give you that and then you're less likely to gets scam because the best you pay for two hours of a consultant

Edmund: that's right

Darryl: someone to advice

Edmund: and I wonder whether it's it's our own industry's own fault because we've always pitched a lot of a lot of people in our space you know try to sell you straight on the services whereas a great model I think is what it would help this better is the legal profession people are used to going to a lawyer and paying them for a few hours to give them some advice and insight right and that's a great one that's exactly what you're doing here you know the lawyer is gonna give you the benefit of their professional opinion based on your circumstances and give you advice

Darryl: Yeah

Edmund: and that's what we're talking about here

Darryl: well when we had Brenda Loignon and (28:55 like he mentioned I think in that area) people don't always follow the advice but that's their prerogative right but you know you you would know this and I hear a lot of people I'll get messages from people and go hey I've been called by such-and-such did you do mob there pitching me this and that may can do this for me and do that and it seems real good deal should I take it or not and it's like we're not even getting the advice about where we're at before we do it and then and look then six months later nothing happened I pay a lot of money I'm really pissed off it's such a scam so think by choosing to get paid professional opinions to evaluate where you're at you know this is not the early days when web was new so there wasn't what were you evaluating like you know this is my first website you've been in business for a while you've got a website at you think it's going okay or you know it sucks right before will you throw the baby out of the bath water go and get the right type of device and start with stages and you will know if the person giving you the advice was wrong okay I'm not gonna take any anymore recommendations from a recommended them where can I get someone else

Edmund: that's right

Darryl: before you engage in $3,000 a month SEO services or a $10,000 website rebuild or whatever make sure that you're comfortable you're you're getting advice and append that with there are plenty of great suppliers that go about the education up front as part of a quoting process is just initial meaning they're very honest and open and then using them in that way or paying them and saying look why don't we just do two more hours of this and you really layout your blueprint of what you think is wrong and right and then we'll have some Q&A about it so I feel comfortable that's equally good because you learn a lot about them I think the danger I saw running up to a service to solve a problem you think you've got without evaluating is it the problem that I really have

Edmund: that's a great stuff

Darryl: (30:54…?) you know like you know like I'm I've got a headache but so I'm taking Panadol the reason I've got a headache is cuz I broke my spine you know like you know I fell over and cracked you know like all I'm doing is taking powder I'm not fixing the cause of the problem so I can get a new website but if my understanding is wrong if I'm an e-commerce store and I don't have guest checkouts and I don't have abandoned car process and I don't have good descriptions and good pricing mechanisms and three options and cheap shipping and all of these options that will make it work a better and fractures and the staff are getting a new website that just repeats this without me understanding what to ask for without me you know doing X Y Z I'm gonna end up in the same place I was before

Edmund: absolutely

Darryl: what other types of things do you think people could do what are what other areas are people?

Edmund: yeah

Darryl: not paying enough attention to

Edmund: well I think I think well we've talked about you know a generalist approach to your website whether it's functioning correctly we've sort of talked about SEO broadly you know of the technical issues on a website whether it's ranking whether it's getting found all those sorts of stuff we talked about analytics and we've talked about paid traffic I mean each of these areas allows you to dig in in more detail to like even in the SEO space there are experts at things like link building promotion do you know what I mean and so if you're a business that has paid an SEO in the past to do things like link building then yet certainly if your results aren't there any more you can get another expert to review your link building and promotional strategy to see whether it's you know being effective I mean that's certainly one opportunity for people and the other big opportunity is around content Darryl what do you think?

Darryl: yeah I agree and I know we probably talk about content strategy you know just dawned on me that even down at a level right so let's just say you've been following along with us and your implement running some quality content at some point going back to your team that you're working with and saying why don't we just step back well let's look at it we've been producing videos in-house why don't I go and see if I can pay one of these for you guys so could you analyze my videos and tell me what I could be doing better you know so you have a choice you could listen to 47 video podcast episodes or watch these things well you could go and pay someone for a couple of hours their time and say what I want you to do now I wanna pay you to review what I've been doing with my video or what are we doing with my writing so you might get an editor you know someone they can go through and say look yeah I realize you might find some typos that's not what I'm talking about I want you as a copywriter to tell me what would you do differently with the copy look I'm sorry we can't afford to engage you every week to write our post but we're happy to get you once a quarter once it half year to analyze our copywriting and tell us what we can be doing better so I think any level of what you're doing getting that outside my opinion to improve what you do rather than just blindly heading down a path okay you know content doesn't work everything’s work I'm just dumping it you and I knew what it's like (33:57…?with a podcast) you know some days you know this podcast it takes a lot of effort there's anyone listening you know maybe we shouldn't do it you know but then you get feedback people come to you'd say hey I got value out of this

Edmund: yeah

Darryl: or I got this or what why don't you do that you know and we got feedback about the sound quality earlier on and you know we're trying to make sure that all those things are fixed but that I think though what do you think

Edmund: I totally agree I mean you you it pays to get advice from people who are experienced and knowledgeable and aren't yourself and outside of your head you know because sometimes we hear these voices in our head it's the same old voice and we don't know what we don't know hey that sounds like a great intro

Darryl: it’s sound like a great intro so in summary what we're saying is I didn't wanna be professional with your websites your online activities your ads which are off-site so not everything that's onsite anything you're doing in your online business area is start thinking about engaging people periodically to do an overview and an audit of what you're doing and how you're doing it take their learning and then hopefully the advice we're giving you will give you questions so you take the report and you now have more intelligence in the areas that they're talking about to be able to ask the right questions and clarify what they're saying and really get a great sense of where you're at and then tha twill allow you opportunities to move forward

Edmund: absolutely wonderful and that's it for today what do you reckon?

Darryl: I reckon

Edmund: excellent well thank you again for listening we really appreciate having you along for the ride if you wanna see the show notes and get access to any of the resources we talked about today Darryl any resources that you've got do you think might help people out

Darryl: I don't have any at the moment at the of my head we'll see what we can stick in

Edmund: awesome wonderful well if you wanna get notified about new episodes just visit bloodywebsite.com or subscribe to the podcast at iTunes also if you enjoy this podcast please leave a review in iTunes it really helps other people find the podcast we hope to see you next week when we'll continue this chat about my bloody website it's good bye from me

Darryl: and it's goodbye from him